Mikethebook wrote:
Brewerpaul, I remember watching a video by Phil Hardy on the history of the Chieftain Low D and he made the first of the OS models I think without any bevel/chamfer just a squared-off windway.
Having a bevel or not can only go so far in influencing a whistle. There are many little dimensions to be considered in the sound producing part of a whistle and each of these plays a part in how the whistle plays and sounds. These include height of windway, flat vs curved windway, distance between fipple and blade, width of windway and blade and geometry of the blade (steep vs shallow, sharp edge vs rounded etc).
Changing any of these can make a dramatic change in the voicing of the whistle. In my whistles, most of these dimensions are created by hand with files and abrasives rather than CNC machining. For me this is the most fun and exciting part of making whistles. I can make 2 or three theoretically identical whistles, from the same billet of wood, and have them come out with distinctly different personalities.
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
The angle and thickness of the ramp is one of the most sensitive adjustments when forming a voice.
When working with a straight ramp. it is relatively easy to do this 2-dimentional adjustment.
But when working with a curved ramp, it becomes a whole lot more exacting.
If you are working with an inert material such as plastic or metal, then it is a little easier depending on what tools you are using. Keep in mind that a file will always produce a convex surface - which will affect the shape of the vortex, and hence, the sound.
The bevel is not important for inert materials. But it is vital for the durability of an active material such as wood.
Wood cannot form a stable ramp-edge on the critical blade angle.
The wood must be beveled because the variability of grain and how the wood will decay if made into a sharp edge.
Now. When you devise the method for cutting the ramp, you will have a specific angle-of-incedence in mind.
This angle is a trade-off between octave-balance, timbre and performance in wind.
SO. You set an angle of your choice, but when you go to execute it with your tools (chisel, router or CNC etc.)
So what do you find?
Oh dear .. microns of deviation of that cut will change the window-depth.
Too short and the whistle will be "flutey" and soft, too long and it will be harsh and loud with a difficult second octave.
This, in chaos math, is called the "butterfly effect" .. but not so chaotic really - it is simply the exponent described by the tangent in trigonometry. (we are dealing with circles here).
But the chaos sets-in with the affect of the ramp upon the turbulence-vortex produced over the ramp.
If you are a few microns short of your desired ramp-depth, you will end-up with a much deeper bevel.
If that bevel gets too great, the second octave will become unruly.
(I will assume that you have determined the best bevel angle and will be consistent with it)
If the bevel angle becomes too steep, you will introduce a "breathy-ness" which will compromise the timbre.
If this happens, you have to reduce the ramp until the bevel comes into an acceptable range without producing too much curve on the ramp over all.
To do this you will need to have a good sharp curved chisel or a convex file - and it will take a long time.
Whistles are non-linear.
At best they are exponential, at most they are chaos.
The laws of turbulence (the thing that makes the sound-vortex) .. that law guarantees chaos.
The maker must explore the chaos until the voice is found.
(I asserted the chaos of whistles many years ago here in this forum, I was challenged by a "fluid dynamicist" that my subjective impression did not prove "chaos". I have since done the university course on non-linear math, and I was correct and now have the math to prove it.)
In my experience: there are many voices concealed within the infinite curls of chaos above the ramp.
Explore them - each material and each starting-point contain what you want if you go looking.
So go look.
I will never release a whistle I would not be happy to play.
But it helps to get to know the player a bit - that will influence the "sweet-spot" which become4s a dialogue between you, the maker, and other - the player. This is the core of music as a joiner of people.
No thing is anything else.
No moment has been felt before.
In summary:
You will have certain angles that form the basis of how you make a ramp.
Stick with them as the skeletal framework of what you do.
But please do remember - they are wrong.
But that's not a bad thing.
Your wrongness will force you to explore all other factors before you find your wrongness.
And in the process?
You will learn it all.
And let me warn you:
There is no right.
But at least you will learn rightness relative to others.
From here?
That's what life is all about.
Send a little love out with all your work. Never sever the connection.
Math and money can never be the final word.
If you want some other technical tips, PM me - but remember: they are only starting points - and all of chaos depends upon where you start.
Tell us something.: May 2022, I'm a second-time beginner to the whistle and low whistle after a three-year gap due to a chest injury brought to an end twelve years of playing. I've started on a high whistle and much is coming back quickly but it will be a while before I can manage a Low D again where my interest really lies. I chiefly love slow airs rather than dance tunes and am a fan of the likes of Davy Spillane, Eoin Duignan, Fred Morrison and Paddy Keenan.
I see a lot of the basic considerations being mixed-in with the fine points. On some HiD whistles, the windsheet measures about .048" thick. This is the distance between the floor and roof of the windway at the exit; it needs to be measured (with gauge pins), not just calculated by the difference of bores, windway depth, etc.. Another big deal is the alignment of the floor with the blade. Some people would say that a sliver of light should be seen below (.003"?). Also important are the window width and height (the "cut-up").
The fine points include (but not limited to) features such as the chamfers (chamfer is the standard term; bevel can mean you're changing the angle of the whole surface, not just creating a small surface at a new angle). Upper chamfer means the one in the head while lower chamfer means on the block. I've had good advice about chamfers, and blended arcs are never recommended to replace the small, polygonal surfaces.
My latest work has produced very good results: I put a concavity in the roof of the windway and one in the floor (large radius from entry to exit, different from the curvature from side to side). Many construction features can be borrowed without making the instrument sound like a recorder; these fetaures only make a better pennywhistle. Other features give the characteristics of a recorder, but that is another discussion!
Your best bet is this article:
Joof, Laura Beha: Recorder Voicing and Tuning, and Use of the Tuning Machine. The American Recorder (November 1985): pp155–159
"Send a little love out with all your work. Never sever the connection.
Math and money can never be the final word."
That's great Mitch. I know it sounds hokey but I feel that a little bit of me goes out with every whistle I ship, and a little connection is formed with the person who receives it. Sometimes I leaf through my order books and remember some of the wonderful people I've met world wide and am so grateful.
Tell us something.: Hi, I have been playing whistle for 3 years. I made my first whistle 2 years ago and my first tin whistle last year in a tinsmithing class.
This bevel/ramp we are discussing was one of the features that I added to each of the whistles I made in a tin-smithing class I took. I made about a dozen whistles and while I learned a lot, I found very few adjustments that I could make with predictable results, i.e. results that I could duplicate. The bevel/ramp we are discussing was the one exception. Thanks to brewerpaul, who kindly took the time to correspond and explain a little bit about his process, I was able to make some good progress. Of the dozen I made, one stands out above the rest, with a clear voicing, good tuning, and louder volume than the rest. I look forward to spending more time in the tin shop this year. Fascinating stuff, mitch! I still have not gotten very far with the curved windway, but look forward to experimenting with it.
