Larsen's C# cut

[Brus]

In chapter 7 of his Essential Guide, Grey Larsen says that on "some instruments" a cut can be produced on C# by covering the bottom four holes and cutting with the B2 finger.

Has anyone tried this?

I tried a variety of D, C, and Bb whistles (Generations, Oaks, Acorns, Waltons, Feadogs, Clarkes) as well as a Susato low D and a Tipple D flute.

For all but one, I got either nothing or the slightest wavering in the tone.

The only one to produce anything like a cut was a high Eb Susato.

EDIT:


Upon further review:

I'm not inclined to consider to consider the Eb Susato a success. Covering the bottom four holes produces something more like a C-natural than a C#. At least on the other instruments, I got something closer to a C#.

[colomon]

I agree that playing the bottom four fingers gives a dodgy C# on most of my whistles.

However, bottom three fingers gives a fine C#, and you can still cut (well, tap, really) with the top finger. Works beautifully on everything I just tried it on.

Oh! B2 isn't the B finger (ie T1), it's the E finger. Yeah, that doesn't do squat for me.

For what it's worth, I believe the formal way I learned to do this was bottom three down for the C#, and the strike with both T2 and T3 to get a "note above" effect. You can get a roll effect by using that in combination with the T1 tap. Sounds great, but I don't think I ever do it in practice.

[benhall.1]

Are you sure he wasn't suggesting cutting with T2 rather than B2? T2 works, potentially, but doing this would give a cut to a Cnat, not a C#.

[Steve Bliven]

I'm with colomon—bottom three down and "cut" with top hole.

Works for me.....

Best wishes.

Steve

[Brus]

Are you sure he wasn't suggesting cutting with T2 rather than B2?

Quite sure.

[Peter Duggan]

Are you sure he wasn't suggesting cutting with T2 rather than B2?

Nope, he quite definitely suggests bottom four fingers cut with B2 and even has a diagram to show it (I've just checked). But, since the biggest pitch difference I've got with any of the whistles I've just tried is about a quarter tone on a Dixon solid brass to give a C# cut on a base note halfway between C# and C, I'd struggle to see its usefulness.

[pancelticpiper]

When I roll C#, which I rarely do, I do it like this

ooo xxx
oxx xxx
ooo xxx
xoo xxx
ooo xxx

The pitch of C# isn't much flattened by having those three fingers down, at least on my whistles.

It's a true roll, with C# cut by a true D and patted with B.

What I tend to do, rather than a roll, is a thing borrowed from Highland piping, a "grip", on both C# and C natural.

The "grip" on C#

ooo xxx
oxx xxx
oxx oxx
oxx xxx
ooo xxx

On C natural

oxx oox
oxx xxx
oxx oxx
oxx xxx
oxx oox

[benhall.1]

Are you sure he wasn't suggesting cutting with T2 rather than B2?

Nope, he quite definitely suggests bottom four fingers cut with B2 and even has a diagram to show it (I've just checked). But, since the biggest pitch difference I've got with any of the whistles I've just tried is about a quarter tone on a Dixon solid brass to give a C# cut on a base note halfway between C# and C, I'd struggle to see its usefulness.

I suppose that's why I was querying it. It doesn't seem to work for me at all to do it this way.

[Mikethebook]

Works okay for me on my Goldie Low D.