Chiff and Fipple Forums

It appears to have the Bec(beak) of a flageolet, but does not appear to finger like a flageolet, rather like a whistle. No apparent thumbhole.

What say you, Mr. G.?

Bob

An image search on the maker's name (CH Mathieu) reveals that he seems to have made various weird-looking contraptions. I'm not sure whether they were meant to be instruments or novelties.

Oh, and that Reddit has a sub called The Penny Whistle Museum, a rabbit hole I might have to go down one day.

(Edited post – originally said Tin Whistle Museum)

Unusual, eh? An English Flageolet (6 holes on top) made by a French maker. French flageolets usually have 4 holes on top and two thumbholes on back. And yes, definitely tapered, but not as extreme as say the Clarke's. Very small-looking blowing hole - I can't imagine it being particularly robust, and the blowing resistance would probably be quite a bit higher than we are used to in these free-flowing days!

I'm imagining the metal is Pewter:

"Pewter is an attractive metal which has been used for the production of household and other items in Britain since Roman times. It is an alloy consisting mostly of tin which has been mixed with small amounts of other metals such as copper, lead or antimony to harden it and make it more durable."

So, in case this one contains lead, it would be wise to wrap the mouthpiece in something safe!

Hmmm, as I'm typing this, I hear an email come in, first registering on my PC, then on the phone in my pocket. And when I look, I see it's a message from Ebay:

"Make an offer for Rare Antique French Whistle Flute Paris Ch Mathieu Brevete SGDG c1890 Silver col, Terry"

Makes you want to look over your shoulder, doesn't it....

Fortunately, Ebay tells me the seller doesn't post to Australia, so I can safely go about my business for the day....

This pic comes from a 1904 Sears-Roebuck catalog. (There’s more contextual information about it here.)

What say you, Mr. G.?

I am not really following this thread but as you called:

It seems like your standard Ch. Mathieu whistle with a flageolet type bit tacked on at the blowing end. I have seen them for sale before (there are two on ebay right now, in the US and in France, each looking for silly money: both want around 180 euro)

An image search on the maker's name (CH Mathieu) reveals that he seems to have made various weird-looking contraptions. I'm not sure whether they were meant to be instruments or novelties.

The company wasn't shy about experimenting stranger forms, I have seen walking stick whistles, quasi flageolets, like the one posted above, etc etc.

I have an ocarina that apparently was owned and played by my great grandfather, as well as a number of whistles, both conical and cylindrical, made by them that are well designed fully functional musical instruments. The tapered whistle can play a full set of chromatic semi tones utilising forked fingerings, near enough anyway.

The first one I had, was one I found in a drawer of a piece of furniture in an antique shop during the eighties. Micho Russell fell for it and I ended up giving it to him after he relentlessly pestered me for it. Always regretted giving in to the pressure. He probably found the key of C# less useful, I imagine. He sounded good on it though, when he first tried it.

Interesting to speculate on who bought these instruments. Who in the US, other than the Irish, might want a diatonic flageolet in the key of D? Any other suggestions?

Price in 1904, 49 cents. About $16.80 today. And now available for 30GBP, or about USD $38.57 for a well knocked-about example. Price has gone up from the one penny associated with the name penny whistle!

Interesting to speculate on who bought these instruments. Who in the US, other than the Irish, might want a diatonic flageolet in the key of D? Any other suggestions?

No reason to assume it was only the Irish that were interested in these whistle/flageolet type of instruments were widely popular across Europe and if you look at mailorder catalogues, in the US as well.
Music was played, rather than just consumed. And whistles were cheap and easy to play.

As someone who likes low whistles and doesn't walk well, I reckon the walking stick model is worth revisiting. It even sounds as if Ch Mathieu could have made me a shower chair that played a D scale if I'd asked nicely.

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:33 am
No reason to assume it was only the Irish that were interested in these whistle/flageolet type of instruments were widely popular across Europe and if you look at mailorder catalogues, in the US as well.

Yes, that struck me too.

Reading Stringbed's blog, which goes back a bit further to the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries, it almost sounds as if some people rarely left the house without a noise-making implement.

Moof wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:36 am As someone who likes low whistles and doesn't walk well, I reckon the walking stick model is worth revisiting. It even sounds as if Ch Mathieu could have made me a shower chair that played a D scale if I'd asked nicely.

There are examples of those in either the Library of Congress or museums in Paris or Brussels, can't remember exactly.

Here's another example:



And there is one cane example for sale here on Aliexpress

I doubt they were low whistles though. Before the 1970s the Generation low G was about as low as they came xnd these are vanishingly rare.

Here a few reminders of non Irish whistle users (both of which I posted here before, though a very long time ago):

Thank you Mr G. I recalled you posting a pictures of some of your Mathieu collection.

Bob

I've always planned to make myself a walking stick flute as soon as I feel the need. I think it would be a marvelous busking aid. A parrot would be the finishing touch.

I've read somewhere that the Irish flute maker, John Clinton, made an "umbrella flute", but I've never seen any evidence. Macaulay Fitzgibbon mentions that "Clinton had a flute case made to resemble a closed umbrella." I find either hard to imagine!

Now, those images are certainly amusing, but lacking further information, they don't actually answer my question do they. We don't know what music they are playing or what key the whistle was in. Or whether they were even playing music - they might be just set up for the camera.

It raises the broader question why were whistles available in the keys they were.

The old Clarkes were in C, and it seems that they only branched out into D not that long ago. Do we know when?

Generation seemed to branch out a long-time back, but do we really know why they chose their range? I'm guessing:
C, because it's the logical centre key, and Clarkes were already doing it? Anyone make extensive use of it? English musicians perhaps?
D, for the Irish market. (Any body else partial to D?)
Bb, Eb and F for band flute use? Can't see them stacking up well against the brass and reeds in broader band use! (Eb later snitched for use in high pitch Irish sessions.)

Indeed, why did we end up playing D? I can only assume because D, G and A sit so easily on the fiddle. So D whistle is our nearest approximation. Compared to B/C or C#/D box, or C/G anglo, we have it easy!

Terry McGee wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:43 pmIndeed, why did we end up playing D?

No doubt THE existential question for every flat pitch piper.

Especially those who also play whistle!

There was a house party/session where for variety's sake the piper intermittently played a B set, and his spouse a designated tuned-down fiddle. Lovely pitch, and the playing was top level. Both were friends of mine and I knew they'd be there, so I made bold to bring along a B whistle (for better or worse). Maybe a bit cheeky of me because the two regularly performed together and were probably not used to others horning in on B mode, but hey, it was a session, and I figured once would be fine. Nobody said I filled a much-needed gap, anyway. We grew a mighty Garden of Daisies.

The character of the music seems to change with each key somehow when you're away from concert pitch, and it can be like a shot in the arm. Eb sessions? Yes, please.

(And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.)