Who is making good tapered/conical high D whistles?

[nduanetesh]

Hi all. It's been a LONG time since I've visited. Happy to be back! I'm wondering who is currently manufacturing high quality high D tapered whistles.

I perform primarily in a fairly rugged, very crowded environment (a renaissance festival) and played a Copeland for many years until I found out how high the prices had gone and realized that whistle should mostly stay at home where it's safe and sound. I looked around a bit for a replacement and bought a Carbony last year. I like a lot of things about the Carbony (the tone, the volume, the unique look of the carbon fiber, and the ruggedness/lifetime guarantee), but I don't like the feel of it, especially how light it is in my hands. I've been trying to bond with it for about a year and a half now, and I just don't love it. I want a whistle with a little heft.

I have had (and currently have) many whistles, and I MUCH prefer a tapered whistle for performing. I'd like it to be tuneable, and a fairly rugged material (bumps and scrapes happen all the time at the festival. I have a Shaw low D that is dented all to hell--but still plays great!). My budget is several hundred dollars, though obviously I'd feel better about paying $100 for a site-unseen whistle than I would $300. I've been clear of my "whistle acquisition disorder" for a long while, and haven't really been keeping up with the whistling world. I have no idea who are the current manufacturers of "performance quality", tapered high Ds. I'd appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks!

[kkrell]

Maybe a Jerry Freeman tweaked Clarke?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275344163021

There are some wood conical high D's available, but not sure if those would be durable enough for you under festival conditions. Phil Bleazey?

[AngelicBeaver]

Note that Carbony has gone through a few mouthpiece iterations, and they're wildly different. You might talk to Rob about what sound you enjoy, and maybe he has an older mouthpiece that might suit you better. Mine is a softer, breathier, higher backpressure version than the later models I tried. I wouldn't mind slightly a more focused tone, but I like that it doesn't kill my ears, and I love the backpressure.

Other than the Carbony, there are wooden whistles like the Bleazey or the Swayne that are conical bore, and then there's the legendary Copeland whistles which can go for $600 or more when they crop up. Aside from that, a Delrin/polymer Black Pearl might be what you're looking for, but that's also discontinued. I'm not aware of a current maker of a really sturdy conical bore high whistle beyond the Carbony.

[RoberTunes]

If conical is so rare of a find, and if you have one that is otherwise suitable, you might consider applying
a strip of metal or metal tape to the underside of an existing whistle, for the "heft". That will to some
degree alter the tone as the responding vibration behavior of the tube then changes, it's impact
on the tone will change. How much, can only be realized by experimenting with whistles at hand.
I've seen whistle reviews where people have done something like this and they liked the altered tone.
You'd have to search through the various ways to do this; soft metal tape, strip of harder metal with adhesive,
metal wrapped around the body. Any harder metal attached like this would theoretically make the whistle
more resistant to damage, depending on the offending circumstances of course.

[Mr.Gumby]

You can try get a second hand Hudson whistle by Pete Bonsteel (not the ones currently marketed as Hudson, they are something completely different) , if anyone is willing to sell. They'd be scarce enough though.

[BigDavy]

I have Bleazey and Rose wooden conical bore whistles and like both, but whether they or a Swayne would be within your price range I do not know.


David

[veloed]

I have been enjoying whistles by John Shaw. I have had a silver Copeland high D some years ago, and quite liked it.
I have also been looking for a whistle like a Copeland, for a more pure sound, then the Shaw has,
and have decided to have a go at making one up in the Copeland style. But in the meantime the Shaw I have is doing well.
Ed in Lakebay Washington USA

[palewine]

Making a tapered or conical whistle is something I've recently been thinking about... what do you like about them?

[BairdM3]

Tommy Martin (Thornton Whistles) makes a conical bore wooden whistle from time to time, looks like he’s back in Ireland now. Probably my favorite wooden whistle (Blackwood high D), but he also makes other keys in other woods, in addition to his pipes.

[Terry McGee]

Hi all

Revisiting this thread to see if we can coax any numbers out of those who have access to tapered/conical whistles. You might have seen at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113236&p=1258253#p1258253 we've been assembling data about the various bore diameters and other parameters makers have alighted upon. The vast majority of the data we have accumulated (31 entries) have been for cylindrical whistles; indeed we have but one data point for an untunable tapered whistle (the venerable Clarke's) and one for a tunable whistle, a Bleazey. Sad or what?

So just extending an invitation that if you can supply any information about other tapered/conical whistles, that has to be a great leap forward. I have to concede, measuring tapered whistles can be quite a bit trickier than measuring cylinders. But make a start, explain any challenges you are running into and we can probably suggest alternative approaches.

[Sirchronique]

If conical is so rare of a find, and if you have one that is otherwise suitable, you might consider applying
a strip of metal or metal tape to the underside of an existing whistle, for the "heft". That will to some
degree alter the tone as the responding vibration behavior of the tube then changes, it's impact
on the tone will change. How much, can only be realized by experimenting with whistles at hand.
I've seen whistle reviews where people have done something like this and they liked the altered tone.
You'd have to search through the various ways to do this; soft metal tape, strip of harder metal with adhesive,
metal wrapped around the body. Any harder metal attached like this would theoretically make the whistle
more resistant to damage, depending on the offending circumstances of course.

That won’t alter the tone.Whistles don’t produce sound in the same manner as a guitar. Putting something on the underside isn’t going to change how the sound is produced.

Hi all

Revisiting this thread to see if we can coax any numbers out of those who have access to tapered/conical whistles. You might have seen at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113236&p=1258253#p1258253 we've been assembling data about the various bore diameters and other parameters makers have alighted upon. The vast majority of the data we have accumulated (31 entries) have been for cylindrical whistles; indeed we have but one data point for an untunable tapered whistle (the venerable Clarke's) and one for a tunable whistle, a Bleazey. Sad or what?

So just extending an invitation that if you can supply any information about other tapered/conical whistles, that has to be a great leap forward. I have to concede, measuring tapered whistles can be quite a bit trickier than measuring cylinders. But make a start, explain any challenges you are running into and we can probably suggest alternative approaches.

Are you only wanting measurements from D whistles? I have a number of old conical whistles I could measure, but it seems many of those companies were not producing D whistles, and focusing on E, C, and B whistles, or at least that’s what I’ve come across over the years.



As for the main question of the thread- There really aren’t too many makers putting out conical whistles right now. Were I in your shoes, I’d just keep my eyes peeled for a decent deal on another Copeland, or alter the Carbony to make it heavier, as it’s not hard to add weight, and you already like it.

[Terry McGee]

Yeah, only looking for measurements on D whistles at the moment. But I wouldn't rule out some wanting to replicate the process for other keys later!

I guess I'd be interested in comments as to whether tapered bores on treble D whistles are warranted. What improvements do players note compared to a good cylindrical whistle? Better balance between high and low notes? In what terms? Volume? Easy speaking? Tone? Nicer feel? Better tuning overall? What's in it for us?

[hans]

I guess I'd be interested in comments as to whether tapered bores on treble D whistles are warranted. What improvements do players note compared to a good cylindrical whistle? Better balance between high and low notes? In what terms? Volume? Easy speaking? Tone? Nicer feel? Better tuning overall? What's in it for us?

Terry, what do you mean by "good cylindrical whistle"? I think the better cylindrical whistles have some way to counterbalance the inherent flatness of second octave notes otherwise observed in a purely cylindrical design. This is exactly the reason why a tapered bore whistle is tapered... One can shift the taper into the head section, or add some material there doing basically the same thing. And by not having a tapered low end, the low notes can be stronger. Same as on flutes.

[Terry McGee]

Hi Hans
I'm certainly aware that cylindrical whistles can get "almost good enough" in terms of 2nd octave tuning, although not ideal. My heavily tweaked Soodlums/Mellow D perhaps demonstrates what's possible. My tweaking pulled it up from the navy blue trace to the green trace.

In my (limited) experience, this assumes thin-walled brass tubing, not say thicker wood or delrin bodies. Their extra wall thickness seems to flatten the second octave too much. Now that's been my limited experience, shoot me down in flames if it's not accurate!

Now, I'm assuming that, as with flutes, a conical/tapered bore could address that upper note flattening issue. I'm also guessing that it would take less taper than flutes, as we push whistles into the second octave with more pressure, so we get a bit of sharpening for free. Also whistles don't suffer the complications of the stopper-face-to-embouchure-hole Helmholtz resonator that flutes have. You can see why a flute maker is at a bit of loose end in regard to whistle acoustics!

And you had some intriguing notes on transferring the taper into the head section. "And by not having a tapered low end, the low notes can be stronger. Same as on flutes." That sounds like it needs following up!

[hans]

Terry, that is a strange graph, without further explanations as to what kind of tweaking you did! And I don't understand the "Just intonation" curve at all. To me the F# and C# should be "flat" compared to ET for a sweet tuned whistle. Thew red line looks fairly good, even though I'd prefer a flatter B, which suits me more for playing in G, and then push it sharper for playing in D. And with all the tweaking, the high second octave end is still quite a bit too flat.