Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

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Geoffrey Ellis
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by Geoffrey Ellis »

Sedi wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:42 am You haven't played one of mine then. Obviously, since so far, nobody has, except me. However mine only look round. I drill them at an angle and make the edge very sharp - it's more modeled after a quena, just sideways. Works great. And I did compare them to at least 3 other well known makers. Unfortunately, there's not too many shops around in Germany that actually carry "Irish" flutes. And I can't buy a whole lot, just to compare.
Well, no...it's true that I have not played one of your flutes :-) But your design is quite interesting. However, it's not quite apples to apples, if you know what I mean. The pictured flutes (the bansuri and Erik the Flutemaker's) versions appear to have the more typical round cut, and presumably their undercut is conventional (in degree) but that's impossible to tell. Your pictured flute obviously has some unusual modifications that will have a noticeable effect on it's response. Like the addition of Adler wings to a lip plate (for example).

The big question for me is not whether a round hole will give you a decent tone, or whether you can make a playable Irish flute, but rather whether the player's ability to achieve more nuanced execution of traditional ornaments is at all reduced as a result of the shape? Again why do so many of the top modern makers (and historical makers) seem to favor an ellipse over a round shape? And I would genuinely welcome other viewpoints apart from my own. Any other makers care to chime in? And again, we are speaking of ITM oriented playing as per the OP.
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Sedi
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by Sedi »

You're probably right. I might get one of those just to try however. They do look cool and are not expensive.
The main problem that I see however is not the embouchure shape but the size. A big embouchure (bigger than about 10mm maybe, but the lip plate has an influence on that limit) on a cylindrical bore means the stopper must be rather close to get a halfway decent octave tuning. And that will weaken the low notes. So my guess is that you will not get the dark, reedy, "hard" sound that is required or preferrable for Irish music.
On a baroque flute IMHO the problem is more the small holes in combination with the small embouchure that makes it not suitable for Irish music. I have no baroque flute, so how big is the embouchure typically?
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Geoffrey Ellis
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by Geoffrey Ellis »

Sedi wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:20 pm You're probably right. I might get one of those just to try however. They do look cool and are not expensive.
The main problem that I see however is not the embouchure shape but the size. A big embouchure (bigger than about 10mm maybe, but the lip plate has an influence on that limit) on a cylindrical bore means the stopper must be rather close to get a halfway decent octave tuning. And that will weaken the low notes. So my guess is that you will not get the dark, reedy, "hard" sound that is required or preferrable for Irish music.
On a baroque flute IMHO the problem is more the small holes in combination with the small embouchure that makes it not suitable for Irish music. I have no baroque flute, so how big is the embouchure typically?
I've only played a couple of Baroque flutes, but the hole diameter was about 6.5mm on one of them and maybe 7mm on the other.
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by Sedi »

Thanks, Geoffrey! That might explain, why they are not suitable for ITM :D . That is really tiny.
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by marshwren »

I would strongly recommend looking beyond carbon fiber. If what you want to do is play Irish traditional music, I don't know if you'll be able to get a CF flute that will consistently do what you want for a reasonable price.

I understand price being an issue-- most of my first flute was payed for with crumpled dollar bills I got as tips, stuffed into a coffee can over the course of a few months. There's a delrin M&E flute going for $200 on the Irish Flute Store right now-- I haven't played an M&E, but from what I've heard they're pretty reliable as beginner flutes, and there are definitely people on the board who swear by them. I'd also say Copley sells his very well-regarded delrin D flute for $360 if you get it without rings (you should get it without rings)-- which is 300 dollars less than the Carbony. A Ralph Sweet Shannon is 275, and if you want wood, one of Mr. Ellis's essential flutes is going for 400-- he could tell you more about it than I could, but they look great and all the recordings I've heard have a really solid sound. All have their supporters. Shipping and exchanges can raise prices pretty quickly, but there are also makers in Europe producing really great keyless flutes for comparable prices. Like the M&E, I haven't played any of these, but I've heard a lot of lovely music played on a flute by di Mauro, for instance.

I hope no one else minds me doing a rehash of entry-level flutes thing on the board again, but it seemed appropriate. I hope it helps.

Also, to put the weight of the Carbony further in perspective, my six-keyed blackwood flute with tuning slide also weighs 12.4 ounces.
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by oldteche »

I want to thank you all for your informative advice. It was quite helpful, and I actually learned a lot. As a result of this post, I did decide not to pursue carbon flutes. I specifically appreciate marshwren's pointer to the Irish Flute Store's M&E polymer R&R flute. I did purchase it. The flute has a following, and the price worked for me. As I hopefully improve, I look forward to contemplating the purchase of one of your flutes.
Again, thank you for your participation.
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Re: Erik's carbon low d flute or Bansuri carbon flute ... opinions?

Post by marshwren »

I hope it works well for you! Let us know how you get on with it.
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