Now I'll have to rethink the whole backpressure thing again.

[krystlepye]

I brought some whistles along with me tonight to band rehearsal. We tend to take whatever time we have left at the end to jam and try out new stuff, so I thought I'd see how some of the whistles I've been enjoying lately worked in a group.

All of a sudden, I couldn't play my whistles right to save myself! I had this big PVC low D that is pretty quiet, but I thought would be ok mic'd, but I couldn't get my breath pressure right to stay in the low octave. Same for my little Guido whistle in high D. I love that thing and could play it all day long around here, but I couldn't make myself blow softly enough in that setting to have the first octaves of either whistle playable.

So this has me thinking. I for awhile couldn't get my head around the fact that all these big name low whistlers were playing Goldies and the like as the gold standard. The general impression I've gathered around here is that backpressure is not generally a sought after characteristic...there seem to be more free or soft blowing whistles around.

But, in that group setting I was in, There was just no way to play the way I wanted too. (more aggressively maybe?) The only think I can think of is that I'm coming at the whistle in a different way than I do when I am playing alone... I'm wanting to meet the dynamic of the group, and I'm naturally putting more air out and more intensity. Does this make sense to anybody? I am kind of thinking out loud here, and I really want to get my hands on a whistle with some significant backpressure to see if that is what I am really looking for. Because I don't want a whistle that just eats more air for me... but I do want something that will be able to take a stronger blow.

Anyway, all of this has me rethinking what I really want as I make future whistle purchases. It's killing me, because I know that the months long wait that some makers have is probably good because it's giving me the time to sort it out a bit, but sitting on the money for a high end whistle and not being able to spend it on one is driving me batty

[Sirchronique]

Backpressure doesn't always correlate with air consumption or the force that you can blow before it flips octaves. It can, but not always. Some whistles have little backpressure but take a slight breath, so don't use much air. Some low whistles like the Burke have extremely little backpressure, but you can really honk on the low octave (that strong bell note is arguably what they are most known for) The two traits are not synonymous. So, don't write something off because of what you hear about it's backpressure, because that doesn't necessarily have to mean it flips octaves too easily.

[ytliek]

Just thinking out loud hear... what instruments are you up against?

Do you have to play whistle(s) louder (aggressively) to be heard, more so than everyone else in the band?

The issue may not even be backpressure. Are you searching for just a loud whistle?

[ickabod]

I'm wanting to meet the dynamic of the group, and I'm naturally putting more air out and more intensity. Does this make sense to anybody? I am kind of thinking out loud here, and I really want to get my hands on a whistle with some significant backpressure to see if that is what I am really looking for. Because I don't want a whistle that just eats more air for me... but I do want something that will be able to take a stronger blow.

Anyway, all of this has me rethinking what I really want as I make future whistle purchases. It's killing me, because I know that the months long wait that some makers have is probably good because it's giving me the time to sort it out a bit, but sitting on the money for a high end whistle and not being able to spend it on one is driving me batty

As far as your theories on back pressure go. Can’t say for certain if that has any direct correlation with volume dynamics.

I think you bring up a good point. Having dabbled with the piano and the guitar I know what you’re driving at. Essentially with the piano the keys are touch sensitive. So if you want to play louder or softer you can. Usually this coincides with an artistic touch based expression with the music you’re creating.

My experience has been that the whistle is just not at all conducive to the issue you’re struggling with.

I have experimented with a PA system by moving closer and further away from the mic while I’m playing so as to experiment with volume dynamcis. (NOTE: Standing while playing helps here) This is done to try and replicate the crescendo/decrescendo type effect. This seems to work somewhat, but my experience has been that a tin whistle doesn’t come near to what a piano or guitar can do when it comes to volume dynamics in music.

I’ve found the upper octave on the tin whistle is typically louder than the lower octave on most whistles. This can impact the mood of a song. Sometimes for the better and other times for worst. In my opinion.

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

Don't over-think or get hung up on isolated features of a whistle. To this day i find myself blowing whistles out of tune and squeal in large sessions where i can't quite hear myself.

[Mikethebook]

At the moment I own a very soft blowing and a medium blowing Goldie Low D but have been playing mainly the latter which (despite its name) does have a high level of backpressure compared to most whistles. It requires pushing hard but also much less air. Each whistle needs to be played the way it was designed to be played and I find when I change to the soft blowing whistle, it's now very easy to overblow it into the second octave until I get used to it again. You have to decide what you want from a whistle and how you want to play it (hard or soft) and choose accordingly. Backpressure is NOT a bad thing; many people prefer it because it means you can play more on one breath but the tone tends to be more closed, more smooth and mellow rather than bright and backpressure makes it more difficult to play higher in the second octave particularly A & B especially if you want to play cuts on them or rolls on them. Many people play softer blowers because the tone is more open and brighter and you don't have to put as much effort into blowing. And if you're mainly into jigs and reels once you've figured out where to take breaths then it's no problem. I started out with a soft blower because I like to play high into the second octave and that was great playing jigs and reels but my main love is Davy Spillane's slow stuff and having recently started to try and play some of those tunes I realise I need both more air efficiency (since breaks for breath are more difficult) but also the ability to play up high. It's a trade-off, a balancing act and Colin Goldie will be making me a Low D that lies somewhere between the soft and medium blowers.

Also I naturally am a softer blower and find putting a lot of pressure into the whistle less comfortable or natural to me so have found a balance where I'm comfortable with a way of playing and have a whistle that meets my needs. Does all this rambling make sense. You have to figure out your way of playing and get a whistle with the right characteristics. And, at least for me, playing aggressively doesn't necessarily mean having to blow harder but with the right use of ornaments I can produce a more aggressive sound. It sounds as though you want to play harder and use less air. Backpressure and air consumption do generally correlate. Even though the Burke has a strong bottom note that doesn't easily break, its low backpressure means its an air hog!!

Again generally speaking most makers of plastic whistles seem to go for soft blowers. Someone will contradict me here!! The makes that come immediately to mind are Goldie, trying something like a medium blower, or Alba. Alba's whistles are not so expensive but they are known for good backpressure. Not sure about Chieftains; they vary between models. Bear in mind that if you choose a whistle with a lot of backpressure, then thats how it has to be played. You can't back off and play it differently because you are on your own. Each whistle is designed to be played a certain way. And choosing a harder blower you are making playing second octave A and above that much more of a challenge. But if you're mainly playing ITM that's not a major problem. Most Irish music stays below second octave A. You pays your money and takes your choice!!

Sorry for the sermon!!

[Mikethebook]

Just another thought. You don't say the make of the PVC Low D but it wouldn't surprise me if it has hardly any backpressure. You might find even the moderate blowing aluminium Low Ds fit your needs better. Colin Goldie does have a perpetual waiting list but the wait is worth it. An Alba I think you would have no problem getting quickly. But also what about the MK Pro. I've never played one but it is very popular and would certainly take playing harder than your PVC whistle and it is very air efficient. How much are you wanting to spend?

[krystlepye]

Just another thought. You don't say the make of the PVC Low D but it wouldn't surprise me if it has hardly any backpressure. You might find even the moderate blowing aluminium Low Ds fit your needs better. Colin Goldie does have a perpetual waiting list but the wait is worth it. An Alba I think you would have no problem getting quickly. But also what about the MK Pro. I've never played one but it is very popular and would certainly take playing harder than your PVC whistle and it is very air efficient. How much are you wanting to spend?

I'm not positive on the maker of the whistle... it's a 3 piece black PVC, and may have been made by the guy at Ethnicwind.com. The person I bought it from wasn't 100% sure. But yeah, hardly any at all.

I think at this point I just need to get hold of a Goldie and try it for myself. See what it feels like and what it does... I am hoping something shows up in the UIE.

[maki]

Goldies come up for sale on thr UIB fairly often.
You won't have long wait.
And you can always post a WTB what to buy.

[ytliek]

Yes, you can look for a used whistle on the UIE, however, buying used with custom whistles is purchasing someone else's specific needs. Used instruments may be cheaper, maybe not so much.

If you have specific needs with your whistle and playing requirements I'd contact Goldie directly and discuss exactly what whistle specifics you want and get a new custom whistle that is made for you. Then you won't have to contend with anyone else's tinkering with the whistle. Unknown maker (home made), carved holes, filed blades, and everything else whistlers do to modify their whistle to their own needs brings too many variables to the whistle.

Contacting the whistle maker just might gain you valuable insight into whistles. Contact Colin Goldie, or whoever the maker of the whistle you want. Ronaldo Reyburn is up your way so see what he can offer. (BTW, he's Scottish so you have something in common already. )

[LisaD]

You mention that this is a mic'd situation ... do you have a monitor? If so, a bit more volume in the monitor might help if you're overblowing in order to either hear yourself or feel that you're meeting the dynamic of the group.

(You may, however, be referring to the ability to "push" or "lean into" a note without jumping octaves.)

[Ted]

While the Goldie (Overton) design was the first to be made as low whistles and a lot of pro's use them, just as many are playing Reyburns and MKs. Those 3 are at the top of the heap IMHO. Copeland is another, but they are usually not easily found and demand a premium when available. There are a few others that are as good, but none better. Burke has his followers as well, if you like them. Reyburns are usually available within a week or two of an order.

[Peter Duggan]

I think at this point I just need to get hold of a Goldie and try it for myself. See what it feels like and what it does... I am hoping something shows up in the UIE.

Just don't assume it's some kind of 'magic wand' because, like Ted says, it's ultimately just one of the top makes.

I sold my Overtons (including low D) when I got my Brackers, but had also been all set to go for a Burke Viper or MK Pro low D till Hans made improvements to his that topped them both for me. And, while I'm not actually suggesting a Bracker low D for you (my low D/Eb head takes noticeably more air than any of my smaller Brackers including the next smaller low E/F), the point remains that there's no single 'magic' top make.

[krystlepye]

I think at this point I just need to get hold of a Goldie and try it for myself. See what it feels like and what it does... I am hoping something shows up in the UIE.

Just don't assume it's some kind of 'magic wand' because, like Ted says, it's ultimately just one of the top makes.

I sold my Overtons (including low D) when I got my Brackers, but had also been all set to go for a Burke Viper or MK Pro low D till Hans made improvements to his that topped them both for me. And, while I'm not actually suggesting a Bracker low D for you (my low D/Eb head takes noticeably more air than any of my smaller Brackers including the next smaller low E/F), the point remains that there's no single 'magic' top make.

I fully agree with you on that. I just need to try some different whistles for myself.

[krystlepye]

Also, my group is Electric guitar/Bass/Drums, and is pretty high energy. I could mess with monitor adjustment all I wanted too, but it's more about how it plays... especially if I go between singing and playing. I'm a pretty loud singer, so to adjust how I'm blowing/breathing way back down again after I've just sung will be difficult.