What is your session like?

[ytliek]

nobody caring whether anybody else is any good - just caring about the moment and the music.

That's a sort of contradiction in terms isn't it? Most good players I know care a lot about music and don't particularly care for people who are ruining their night's playing.

This forum talk taking clips & snippets make for difficulties to begin with: meanings out of context, tone, and so forth. Not all forums are the same.

As far as the nobody caring... everyone at the workshop cares deeply. Comparisons between levels of players is dropped as there is always "someone better than yourself", dropped as negative speech while the focus is on the positive of improving the play. That doesn't eliminate constructive criticism.

In fact I think traditional musicians in general are extremely harshly critical of other musicians. Maybe not in public, in private though no prisoners are ever taken. It's always the not so great and outsiders who are the egalitarians that proclaim everybody should be accepted, no questions asked.

Yes, the workshop is in private. Yes, the masters can be harsh and just say something like, "just put it away", sometimes meaning the music and sometimes meaning the instrument, and sometimes its said, "just pack it in" meaning maybe you shouldn't pursue this at all. Honestly. Everyone's approach is different. YMMV

I agree with the travels experience, but according to comments here and elsewhere true trad sessions are becoming harder to find, maybe less so but even in Ireland. Maybe its the music changing, or the peoples' attitude towards the tradition. Or which musicians are valued as worth preserving. And who gets to decide that? Another mention by Hoban was that the most senior of traditional musicians are valued in Ireland by even fewer people.

Not sure what to say about that. Pub sessions are a fashion that will disappear as soon as publicans no longer see a profit in them. As long as they attract punters or tourists, they'll continue.

That's what was meant earlier when said sessions... "are finished". Though they may continue for alterior purposes but not as originally conceived.

'True trad', another thing I don't know what to make of. I think a session as it once existed would be a social event, among friends. Not something meant to be 'found' by the general public by definition, not an event open to all comers. And traditional music was never anything but a minority interest to begin with, in fact I'd go as far as to say it was never more popular or accepted in Ireland than it is today.

The 'true trad' that I was referring to, even at my newbie-ish level and understanding, is the stuff tucked away in the vaults of personal keepings. It may not even be written down, but, exchanged person to person. Personal archives that the public may never see, stuff that the troubadour hands down as a gift, if one so chooses, while even considering never letting go of anything. Perhaps sprinkles here and there.

Music and attitudes change as society and general attitudes change. Not a bad thing by definition. Ireland is not the same place it was forty or even twenty years ago and that's, in many ways, not a bad thing either.

Change is inevitable as eternal energy.

[ytliek]

nobody caring whether anybody else is any good - just caring about the moment and the music.

That's a sort of contradiction in terms isn't it? Most good players I know care a lot about music and don't particularly care for people who are ruining their night's playing. In fact I think traditional musicians in general are extremely harshly critical of other musicians. Maybe not in public, in private though no prisoners are ever taken. It's always the not so great and outsiders who are the egalitarians that proclaim everybody should be accepted, no questions asked.

I think I may have expressed myself badly. At any rate, I didn't mean that "everybody should be accepted" in the sense of tolerating mediocrity, or worse. I was thinking about some of the great sessions I've had, where a lot of it's about the people. But then, they've tended also to be populated by very good musicians.

Everyone has differing 'spheres of influence' so the trad may very accordingly. Meanwhile the troubadours I had mentioned dance amongst the spheres at their pleasure. Perhaps they dance upon the whistle forum session? How would one know?

I disagree about the harshness of traditional musicians though. Or at least, the best of them. In my experience, the very top musicians are almost always generous, genuinely tolerant, and critical of people who don't find good in almost anybody's playing. Again, just from my experience, it's the also-rans, the 'second best' musicians, who tend to be aggressively critical, even downright bitchy at times. The best musicians simply don't need to be.

As a beginner whistler I have encountered some extremely kind people. I can't wait to venture into the session with naysayers and shake out my whistle.

I totally agree with this sentiment though - "Most good players I know care a lot about music and don't particularly care for people who are ruining their night's playing." That's unarguably true - almost a truism in fact. When I posted my quote above, I wasn't thinking of that. I was thinking of the opposite, where at times sessions just get to be some sort of competitive bitchfest, with the supposed 'stars' just itching to pounce on some poor soul who dares to play a wrong note. It's a recent phenomenon as far as I can see.

I get that. There are differing session moments though, the formal, serious, practice, teaching, fun, goofing off, well o k, goofing off... get out.

[ytliek]

I did say 'in private'. In my experience, especially with the old guys, opinions are/were quite brutal and to the point. Which doesn't negate being civil and encouraging while the person/persons in question is/are present.

Sounds like a teaching/learning moment. That's one type of session.

There's no need to put someone on the spot although I have been in situations where I have seen some of the greatest players tell people that if they couldn't they shouldn't.

I already mentioned, "just put it away" and the various contexts. Clear and distinct though.

[ytliek]

That gives me some hope, if I ever find a session within reasonable driving distance.

I guess my whole point is that hopefully I'll have the same good fortune with ITM as with country.

These are all good thoughts. IMO, there's only so far you can go with dedicating yourself to playing the pure drop traditional music in any given genre.

Like it or not, you're not the product of an insulated regional environment, and have been exposed to a myriad of styles and players. These things WILL find their way into your music. And the fact is, the very players you emulate were very likely pioneers and innovators themselves. Life moves on.

I think the best things you can do are strive for good taste and radiate respect for the people whose music you value.

Yep, that's my approach to whistling.

[Mr.Gumby]

Not sure what to say about that. Pub sessions are a fashion that will disappear as soon as publicans no longer see a profit in them. As long as they attract punters or tourists, they'll continue.

That's what was meant earlier when said sessions... "are finished". Though they may continue for alterior purposes but not as originally conceived.

Well, sessions were not conceived to make money for publicans, the money spin of regular advertised sessions is really the ulterior motive. Musicians will gather to play where ever and whenever.

The 'true trad' that I was referring to, even at my newbie-ish level and understanding, is the stuff tucked away in the vaults of personal keepings. It may not even be written down, but, exchanged person to person. Personal archives that the public may never see, stuff that the troubadour hands down as a gift, if one so chooses, while even considering never letting go of anything. Perhaps sprinkles here and there.

You mentioned it in relation to sessions, that's where I got confused. Archives, I can relate to that, as I said I am a hoarder of music as well as a taker of pictures. But as someone once told me, sometimes all that matters is just being there, not everything needs to be recorded. Exchanging stuff is enjoyable though and again an essential part of learning.

But between troubadours and workshops and all that I am not sure we're even talking about the same thing anymore. I understand the concepts ofcourse but have a bit of a hard time uniting them with music and musicians as I know and have known them. Most musicians of the older generation were just ordinary people and as Micho used to say, music, it comes down from the heavens in showers. Which in it's extended form was just a way of saying it is a way of coping with the immense bleakness of life in the West.

[ytliek]

You mentioned it in relation to sessions, that's where I got confused. Archives, I can relate to that, as I said I am a hoarder of music as well as a taker of pictures. But as someone once told me, sometimes all that matters is just being there, not everything needs to be recorded. Exchanging stuff is enjoyable though and again an essential part of learning.

Yes it was my fault from the start, sorry for the confusion. Its really about values. I was trying to narrow the notion of sessions (general down to specific), traditional sessions (public down to private), and the preservation of the value(s) instilled within the tradition. Its more than just sheet music, dots on a page, more so because its about people, connected to their lives, history, styles and so forth.

But between troubadours and workshops and all that I am not sure we're even talking about the same thing anymore. I understand the concepts ofcourse but have a bit of a hard time uniting them with music and musicians as I know and have known them. Most musicians of the older generation were just ordinary people and as Micho used to say, music, it comes down from the heavens in showers. Which in it's extended form was just a way of saying it is a way of coping with the immense bleakness of life in the West.

Well, at this point I'd settle for crumbs swept off the floor and out the door of the kitchens of the older generation, especially Micho's, and a few others.

[Mr.Gumby]

Not sure I'd fancy anything off the floor of the Russell house. I remember Gussie going out to rinse the mugs in a muddy puddle outside the door before making the tea. It definitely was a bachelor's establishment.

Anyhow, I agree with your point about 'tradition' including people and places, community and all those things. I have been hinting at that a few times along this thread.





Did we mention 'streetsession' yet?



Michael Kelleher, Gerald Haugh, Bríd O Donohuie and Joe Rynne. Ann McAuliffe was playing whistle on the right behind me so not included in pic

[ytliek]

Not sure I'd fancy the crumbs off the floor of the Russell house. I remember Gussie going out to rinse the mugs in a muddy puddle outside the door before making the tea. It definitely was a bachelor's establishment.

Crops are grown in manure, fertilizer, and there just may be a few minerals in those puddles so it may be healthier than thought. I love tea.

Anyhow, I agree with your point about 'tradition' including people and places, community and all those things. I have been hinting at that a few times along this thread.

I've been trying to gather those hints, and I love the hoarders too. I'm also a newbie trad photo junkie... can't help it.

Did we mention 'streetsession' yet?



Michael Kelleher, Gerald Haugh, Bríd O Donohuie and Joe Rynne. Ann McAuliffe was playing whistle on the right behind me so not included in pic

I don't think so. And you are meaning a 'streetsession' for the love of playing, rather than 'busking', or are they the same?

[Mr.Gumby]

Busking is a bit of a different thing more like this:



which is an old one from the eighties, taken in Shop street in Galway, the shop is now Brown Thomas. Below, taken at almost the same place, is Siobhan Hogan busking a few weeks ago. She's a lovely whislte player and the Cd she made with her sister Una 'The Blue Eyed Rascal' is highly recommended.




I meant just playing and enjoying the weather while it's there. Some people do put a case or a hat out though.

Here's a younger, or if you like, more modern next generation-ish version of a street session:

I'm also a newbie trad photo junkie... can't help it.

I did a B&W calendar in 2010 (all portraits of now deceased Clare musicianers) in support of Oidreacht an Chláir . That's sold out but they still have a poster with the twelve pics for sale, in support of the organisation, a worthy cause. (It's not on their webshop but if you give them a shout they have plenty left)

[Azalin]

What I notice is that over a long period of time I have become less interested in session playing, I suppose as you understand more about this music you become more sensitive about the interactions, especially if they don't work satisfactory, as well ass the whole politicking atmosphere in the background. It's hard to beat a few tunes with friends you share an understanding with, knocking ideas off each other and responding to those ideas on the fly. It will keep you walking on air for days. To get back to the musical landscape image, you can think of session playing as similar Ireland itself and it's weather, being in the right spot on a good day will be elating and it will help you forget the times you have to put up with that that are at best bleak as well as the stretches that are just miserable and depressing. You try live for the good days but, as Jacky Daly often said when we were playing for sets in Coore, 'it's dark and lonely work'.

Well, I'm a little late to this one, and a bit off topic, but it's true that with time we go through lot of changes. I remember what seems like ages ago when I would sit in a session in Miltown Malbay throughout Willie Clancy week and would try to go full speed and full volume on my Susato whistle. I was so happy with the noise, the chaos and the crazy fast tunes I could not really play... then you'd show up from time to time, hiding your identity from us young Chiffers Now, if I were to go back, I'd spend the day trying to find a relatively quiet session in town (if such a thing even possible?) and would rather spend 5 hours hunting for a small session than play in any of the big sessions. I would certainly hope to be lucky enough to end up in your kitchen somehow Those were the days, when it was so much easier to enjoy myself musically in sessions.

[Loren]

As always, love the wonderful photos Mr. Gumby, thanks for sharing.