Just got a MK Pro low D and the finger stretch is real tough even using the pipers grip. I hope to keep the whistle as it is a fine instrument. How much easier is the stretch on a Burke EZ low D and is it a good low whistle for a beginner having reach problems on a MK Pro? What are the trade offs? Is the E on the Burke super weak? In the mean time I will continue practising on the MK. Also, anyone know if Mike Burke stocks the EZ low D or if it is a special order? What is the wait time on a Burke EZ low D?

Cayden

Cayden, physics dictates the design of a whistle largely. There is a lot of similarity in hole size and spacing across good low D whistles.

I own a couple Burke Vipers and an EZ. I do not own an MK.

My suggestion would be to just stick with the MK and become accustomed with the Super Duper EZ Grip. That is the bbest solution in the long run.
It's a modest reduction of stretch. Personally I think that having the rotating bottom hole on the for stretch issues.


The Burke whistles are free blowing whistles. How're your lungs? They are really good whistles in my opinion but probably not at all like the MK in the breath department. I find them to be very flexible tonaly. You have to play it, it does not play you.


No, not really. Compared to what? We could quibble if you like splitting hairs.

Ask Mike. Yes, he tries to keep things in stock and I've had deliveries in a few days to a few weeks. He builds in batches and to a schedule. So ask him. He's one of us, really, not a big corporation. So just ask him.

Personally, I'd suggest you stop analyzing options and get on with learning to play. Otherwise you'll be back in a few weeks asking about another low D. The MK is a good whistle by most accounts so "Love the One Your With", "Dance with the one what brung ya", etc..

Feadoggie

If you lay out all the best Low D's side by side you'll see that all of them have the toneholes pretty much in the same place... there's a reason for that! All of the best Low Ds represent the best compromise between the laws of acoustics and human anatomy. (The exceptions of course are conical-bore Low Ds which have the lower-hand spacing compressed much like a conical-bored flute has.)

On an ordinary Burke Low D, Low E is already weaker than its neighbors Bottom D and Low F#. It's because the E hole is, acoustically speaking, too far up the tube, which is why it's smaller than the F# hole. Ideally the E hole would be halfway between the F# hole and the open end, and just the same size as the F# hole. (Just look at the size and placement of the toneholes on a Boehm flute, which has all the holes the ideal size and place.)

Low D whistle makers do this because of human anatomy. They make the E hole higher and smaller so that with the pipers' grip the instrument can be comfortably played.

I'm guessing that the "EZ" (boy what a Red Flag that is) has the E hole moved up the tube even higher, even further away from its acoustically ideal position, making it even weaker. You can't move the toneholes without paying the price.

My advice would be to either 1) master the pipers' grip so that you can play any good Low D comfortably or 2) switch to a conical-bore Low D, which will have the lower-hand holes closer together.

(I know about the Burke Pro Viper Low D because I played one as my primary instrument for a few years, before switching to the MK. One of the great things about the MK is that, unlike most Low Ds, the Low E is the same power/strength as its neighbors. Part of this, though, is due to the fact that the MK's Bottom D isn't as powerful as the Burke's.)

Every Low D I've tried which has had the E hole moved even further up the tube than usual has had an unacceptably weak Low E. I had, at one time, a Low D which was even more odd: the maker, in an attempt to make the arm reach for the lower hand shorter (maybe people with short arms had asked for such) had moved all three lower-hand toneholes further up the tube. G emitted from a small hole right up next to the A hole and E was a tiny hole situated about where the F# hole normally is. This whistle was awful.

Feadoggie and Pancelticpiper,
I am not surprised by your replies which make perfect sense. The employment of the pipers grip still leaves me struggling to reach the bottom hole. I thought the closer spacing on the Burke might be a remedy. I assume that you are saying with continued practice on my MK, the reach for the bottom hole should become more manageable? I plan to keep up practice on the MK now despite the pain incurred trying to reach and cover all of the tone holes. I do realize that the MK is a great low whistle and the tones that I can easily produce out of her sound great. I'll keep at it. Please note that I did not expect to transition from high to low whistles without issues, I just thought that employment of the piper's grip would more readily address "reach" without major hand cramping and pain resulting.

Cayden

'employment of the pipers grip still leaves me struggling to reach the bottom hole'
OOPS - I suspect you're not on target with your lower hand - in using the pipers grip, start by putting the first pad of your ring finger on the lowest hole, THEN rotate your wrist towards you till you're other 2 fingers are lined up over the other 2 holes, regardless of what part of the other 2 fingers land on the holes. Let your ring finger be the main director, and swivel your wrist AFTER the ring finger is planted. Hope this helps.

Retired,
I have read the instructions on piper's grip and used the first pad of the ring finger as an anchor, then rotating the wrist as you mentioned. Still experiencing reach / coverage issues. I will keep working at it. Thanks.

Cayden

in many instruments that i have battled with over the years, i've experienced similar issues when it first arrives.
1. excitement for the long awaited new instrument!
2. enjoyment in it's beauty, initial sound
3. frustration with my limitation on technique to be able to play it like my other instruments.

do you have any other 'in between' whistles, like a low G or F? those are good ways to get used to a low D without the stretch being too far.

i would concur that keeping the MK is a good idea, and just chip away at it 20-45+ mins a day, broken into 2-3 practice sessions. enough to build muscle memory, but not overly stress your tendons and wrist as you are adjusting to the stretch.
keep playing your other whistles to remind yourself you really *are* a good player, and you'll get more and more comfortable with the coverage on the MK.
by the way, i have small hands and own the same whistle, so if i can do it, (most) anyone can.
enjoy!

Dspmusik,
You make some great points. Thanks for the tips and encouragement!

Cayden

That's an excellent description, retired.

Thanks MTG - I believe I got that info from one of your earlier posts, and I think Dspmusik's tips are right on also .

Reach is a strange thing. Its immediate impression on you is that it's fixed, that what you see is what you get, and if you can't reach then you will not be able to reach at a later point either.

I don't play a Low D so I have no experience there. But I've played guitar for 40 years, and I do know that the reach I have on the guitar is something I would never have thought possible when I started. And it only kept improving. My hands are the same, I can't, when looking at them, see any change in dexterity. It's just that one day you find that you can reach or stretch to where you could not before.

-Tor

Tor,
I would say you are correct. Spent some time on the new MK low whistle today and have already seen improvement both with my employment of the piper's grip, fingering (including reach), and breath control specific to phrasing and shift between octaves. I am really starting to love this whistle. Thanks for the encouragement.

Cayden

Well, I didn't want to be the one to discourage you or offer a tongue-lashing, because I think you're probably heading in a good direction.

But, you know ... You made quite a deal of buying a somewhat scarce, vetted "pro" quality MK instrument from a top player (hi Patrick!), that's now in your beginner hands instead of another player's. There's a sort of responsibility in that - though of course, anyone is free to acquire anything, including multiple instruments. But to turn around and search for a Burke after 24 hours with an instrument that may take months or years to master ...

Remember that WhOA is a funny meme, but successful players are usually more interested in SkOAL (Skill Obsessive Acquisition Lunacy) than in WhOA. And instant gratification is for iPod button pushers.

Getting up to snuff, as it were?

Cheers, Nano!