Dixon Trad Tweakmeister Advice Sought

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:41 am

I have a brass Dixon Trad, and I love the way it plays. However, I am not as thrilled with the way it sounds. Too pure or recorder-y or something for me; kinda hollow-sounding. I guess I must be a more chiff-oriented sort. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Anyway, I'm wondering what sort of tweaks I could try to give it a different tone - maybe something like a Gen or a Feadog - and yet retain its playing characteristics that I love so well, if that's within the realm of possibility. I would also want to keep it within the pitch specs it already has.

Any takers?

AlonE · Post by **AlonE** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:02 pm

your problem is very peculiar, so that exactly it is a DixonTrad, that has a traditional sound with great chiff. In fact it is just as a Generation or Waltom, but without defects. I have one and its sound is trad completely. Perhaps you must warm up it a little. Even that in fact, never I knew that effect has this. But all say that it serves as something.

ChristianRo · Post by **ChristianRo** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Have you tried the poster-putty trick already? This might remedy the "hollowness" you mention. I tweaked my Dixon this way, but found out afterwards that I preferred its original sound. For a true Gen/Feadog sound I have my trusted cheapies.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:36 pm

ChristianRo wrote:Have you tried the poster-putty trick already? This might remedy the "hollowness" you mention. I tweaked my Dixon this way, but found out afterwards that I preferred its original sound. For a true Gen/Feadog sound I have my trusted cheapies.

Yeah, I did the putty tweak as a matter of course. Just removed it and got more character in the tone, so I imagine my experience is mirroring yours.

Still, I think it has somewhat of a recorder quality to it, but a tad chiffier than before, now that it's without the putty. Maybe I'll be more satisfied with it that way.

AlonE wrote:In fact it is just as a Generation or Waltom, but without defects.

I can't agree with that, sorry. The tonal character of this Dixon is quite different from a Gen to me; Gens are pretty much all I've ever played up to now. I tried a couple of other Dixons since (another Trad, and one of those aluminum jobbies with the tuning slide), and they all sound very much like each other, so I don't believe it's just this one whistle in my case.

Any other tips?

LoLo · Post by **LoLo** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:04 am

I agree that the Dixon Trad is very different to Gens and other cheapies. I do, however, really like the Trad, it's a very nice whistle.

And it doesn't sound like my recorder either.

Thomaston · Post by **Thomaston** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:14 am

Maybe the nickel Trad would have a sound that suits you better?

Oh yeah, count me in as someone who also found the putty trick to be detrimental to the sound of the Trad.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:34 am

Nanohedron wrote:I did the putty tweak as a matter of course. Just removed it and got more character in the tone

My experience too, exactly (and ChristianRo and Thomaston).

I think you and AlonE are hearing the same thing from slightly different perspectives. If playability is your main concern, and you like chiff but find the Gen hard to control (the defect), then the easy-playing Dixon's hint of chiff is a plus. If you like chiff and are comfortable playing a Gen, then the Dixon's playability is nice, but the reduced chiff jumps out at you as a negative.

I've also played several Dixons, and agree that what you're hearing is the characteristic Dixon sound.

One thing I've found ... The Dixon Trad is a relatively quiet whistle, and plays OK with light breath pressure, though with the kind of thin tone you describe. But it also plays well at its limit by pushing it a bit. It can take a little more air than a Gen and develops a bit of backpressure. Pushing it also helps to bring out the chiff that's there. And it benefits from a nice round mouth-cavity embouchure ... think "aaaaah" instead of "eeeee" ... which turns that slight "hollowness" into a very pleasant round tone.

So if you're used to Generations, maybe you're just not pushing the Dixon quite hard enough.

I know from trial and error that it's possible to induce more chiff in a whistle (or completely mess it up) by perturbing the mouthpiece bore with putty chokes. I haven't tried this with the Dixon, but maybe it's worth an experiment.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:40 am

Thanks, MTGuru. I'll try the different cavity thing, too. Funny: it seems that I get a different quality playing the Dixon Trad out of the side of my mouth compared to the center of it. Haven't noticed this with Gens!

TWDJ · Post by **TWDJ** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:04 pm

I've noticed the same thing as MTGuru and nanohedron mentioned in regards to changing throat dynamics and mouth position with both whistles and NAF.

By moving to the side of the mouth, I believe you "automatically" do the "aaaaaah". Your front teeth overlap, but the molars do not so the jaw opens more as the mouthpiece has moved farther into your mouth. You may also notice, at least I did, you also seem to get some resonance in your sinus cavity when doing the "aaaaaaah".

In my singing days, the difference in resonance when warming up to "may, mee, my, moe, mooo" could be felt and heard easily.

Or I may be totally over-thinking.

Cheers!
===============

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:22 am

Just following up ... I did spend a few minutes very unscientifically stuffing different sized wads of Blu Tack in various spots in the bore and head, placing folded O-rings in the head, and fitting O-rings around the head (à la Susato tweak). Subjectively, I'd say none of the configurations was an improvement in added chiff or complexity, only unmusical scratchiness and instability. And predictably, in some cases the intonation suffered.

I do like the results with an O-ring placed just at the upper edge of the fipple window. This acts somewhat like the air dam on a Copeland whistle, and helps to focus the sound. But, if anything, the tone becomes a bit less less chiffy, so kind of the opposite of what Nano was looking for. Oh well.

But taken on its own terms, I think the Dixon trad is a nice little whistle, and its sound and feel are growing on me.

lyrick · Post by **lyrick** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:40 am

I've had a similar reaction to the Trad as some of you. I love the way it plays, it blows real smooth and easy. For some reason it's easy for me to be relaxed with my fingers and breath on this whistle. The tone is mellow and clear, but there's nothing notable about it, I can sympathize with Nano's reaction to the tone.

It's a quiet whistle, including in the second octave, so if you're looking for that I think it's a good choice. On mine the second octave D sometimes has a penetrating hhhhrinnngggg to it, and the lowest couple notes aren't especially strong, otherwise it's got a consistent tone.

Does anyone have both the Dixon Trad and the Walton's Mellow D? If you do, would you please check to see if the Trad head fits on the Mellow D tube? I ended up with an extra Dixon Trad fipple (the tube got crushed by UPS, I got a replacement whistle, and I got to keep the tubeless fipple).

It doesn't fit on any of my other tubes, they're too small. I can get it to fit with Teflon tape, but it doesn't sound good, the fipple seems to be made for a wider bore. If the Trad fipple fits on the Mellow D tube, I'll buy a Mellow D, then I'll have a spare Trad for my desk or wherever.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:33 pm

Hi lyrick, The Dixon tube measures 17/32" outside diameter. A hair bigger than the standard 1/2" Generation-type tube. Maybe someone can measure their Walton Mellow D and post it here.

Also, the tube lengths are different: Dixon 9-5/8" and Gen 10-3/16". More of the Dixon bore length is in the longer head, and the overall scale of the Dixon is a tad shorter. The Dixon head on a Gen tube results in a whistle that's a full 1/2" longer than the Gen. So you may have to cut 1/2" or more from the top of the Walton tube to get something with the right pitch and intonation.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Franz · Post by **Franz** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:14 pm

lyrick,
I have both and the Trad fipple doesn't fit the Mellow D. The Mellow D tube is a bit too big.

lyrick · Post by **lyrick** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:32 pm

Franz wrote:lyrick,
I have both and the Trad fipple doesn't fit the Mellow D. The Mellow D tube is a bit too big.

Thanks, Franz. Does it feel like it's close? I've sanded tubes down to get them to fit, but you can only sand so much.

The Trad does have a longer fipple and shorter tube than others, so I know I'd have to cut some length off the tube to make this work, that's what I did when I tried it on a Generation tube. It was obvious, though, that the fipple was made to sound right on a wider bore, though.

Franz · Post by **Franz** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:46 pm

lyrick,
No, the tube diameter difference is significant. I can slide the Trad tube inside the Mellow D tube. Sorry, I think you'll have to find another tube that will fit your extra fipple. My Trad head fits my Black Diamond C & D tubes perfectly and the sound is quite nice and in key, but they are more expensive than a Dixon trad, so what would be the point. I think another Trad tube might be the cheapest solution.